The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. Birch. Commercially manufactured modern day replicas of the dies/stamps used for markings are often used in "restoration". By signing up you agree to Guns.com's The Grand Rapids facility stopped carbine production on 01 Jan 1944 but continued to make receivers and trigger housings which were sent to the Saginaw Plant for assembly. Are you sure it is a Saginaw? Overall, this rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition. A brand new condition stock on a carbine with well-used metal components is a sure indication that something is amiss. The bore shows an M.E. The decision for which receivers
the store. Everything Stamper G.S. I've had this M1 Carbine for about 20-years. Data collected
Is it SAGINAW S.G. or SAGINAW S'G'? On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table, choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. I have never really studied the parts or did much research. Resulting in the change of the design to the type V stock. You may have been hiding under a rock if youve not yet heard of the new SIG Sauer MCX Spear. Product Information & Specs. on the right. What does a 10,000 dollar insulator look like? If a parkerized bolt is observed, the piece is almost certainly not all original. The example on the bottom of the handgrip (below) shows the circled P in san serif within a 1/2 inch diameter circle over stamped with an Ordnance rebuild P. Carbines having been rebuilt more than once will sometimes have
Skip to the beginning of the images gallery, 73 Plank Ave Paoli,
I have a Saginaw SG 3.22 million range. Barrel Date: March, 1943, Action Type:Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. There are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers. The rifling is sharp. The early Type I stock is a Saginaw SG stock made after SG took over the factory, but it was still made in the samefactory as the previous Type IIrwin-Pedersen stocks. Barrels were a critical component in the production lines. Inland later decided to present carbines as gifts to Inland employees,
During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. As stated, the overwhelming majority of carbines were overhauled by the government after WWII and many of the original parts replaced by later pattern parts. That's a beauty! This is not to imply thatonlythese parts are important as every component should be closely scrutinized. Many people have reconstructed many carbines with what they believe should have been on the carbine when it left the factory. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to
Action Type: Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. The receiver, bolt, and trigger group have been refinished. Copyright 2011-2023 All Rights Reserved. It is this
It appears to read S. Common sense will dictate that a well used stock would not have pristine stock markings. More pics on my later response. Because of this popularity, testing and use of the carbine for purposes well beyond it's original design became fairly common. SIG Sauer Tango MSR Optic Review: Your Value & Performance LPVO. and is not a very late production Inland or Winchester, one may rest assured that the piece is a post-war rebuild or has been assembled from parts. part of our network, we sell THEIR guns first whenever possible. However, the majority of carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights. on your local stores shelf, most retailers drop ship it from a warehouse in
Carbines have been, and still are,
General Motors Steering Gear Division. The quantity of carbines used by their Engineering Section varied so the numbers with each prefix also varied. The stock was cut to accommodate the selector switch located on the left side of the receiver. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. We got our hands on one of the original MCXs for some testing. had passed inspection. We get the FFL from your store others make you find it, copy it, and fax it. to strengthen the Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M2 stocks. Need Help Identifying Marks and value on My New SG M1. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. and appears to have come later. Some of the info in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the book. This is not the case because, as stated, as some contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces during the war. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. The top of the barrel is marked UNDERWOOD / 9 43 and P. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. Although additional woods were approved it does not appear any were manufactured using other than Walnut, Birch, or Cherry. When the narrow L type non-adjustable rear sights were replaced by the adjustable variety during overhaul, the later types were generally staked into place by punch pricks on both sides of the sight base. Serial numbered receivers that failed to pass inspection were set aside as rejects if the defect(s) could not be brought up to minimum standards. 3?7XXXX ? CARBINE / CAL. The left stock is stamped M-U where the sling is inserted, apparently meaning Marlin Firearms made the stock; walnut with a high wood, two rivet handguard. A plain SG with no other markings is also stamped on the front left of the receiver. The markings on the
The U.S. Carbine Caliber .30 Stock Group Wood & Finish Walnut Birch The two most common types of wood used for Caliber .30 Carbine stocks and handguards were American Black Walnut and Yellow Birch. Where the standard rear sight would be there is a pedestal, the top of which has been milled. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. Oval sling cut, High Wood covers slide
The inside of the operating slide is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 65). The barrel flat is marked with a flaming bomb. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. We did not fire this rifle. During WWII the only stocks made with Birch were made by Sprague & Carleton Co. of Keene, NH for IBM (SC-B). Got 1 ! 7 day inspection period on all website purchases. Earlier stocks sometimes had their High Wood area removed. Make: Saginaw SG. This M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection. Therefore, if any other carbine has this type of barrel band, it is not all original. were parkerized, the tint and texture of these parts varied. during the time the carbines were manufactured. My guess is that since the receiver has the SG on the left front, it's probably a Saginaw-Saginaw and not a Saginaw-Grand Rapids (IP). They put on the Mauser type rear sight and milled the original rear sight pedestal to reduce glare. Given the high volume of production, receivers were generally assembled as part of a carbine within a few months after the receiver was serial numbered. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. for use with a select fire mechanism. This Irwin-Pedersen M1 Carbine uses almost all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that were made prior to Saginaw SG taking over. There has to be either a period or apostrophe after each letter of the SG on the receiver heel. Saginaw receivers with Saginaw serial numbers have been reported with S'G' markings. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. It is a rare M1 Carbine that is 1 part short of being all matching. The stock shows several scrapes & scratches. / GENERAL MOTORS / 1-44 and P. As time goes on more and more carbines are having parts replaced. Model: M1 Carbine Serial Number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944. Top: M1 stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: Cutout for M2 selector switch inside the left side of the stock. I bought it a few years ago from another Calguns member. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. Over 6 million were made by a number of U.S. companies to assist with the all out war effort. Lock, Stock & Barrel Investments Occasionally the Ordnance rebuild mark was placed on the right side of the stock. Therefore, just because a carbine retains its original parkerizing, this does not mean that it was never overhauled. It's an S'G' not an S.G. Overall, this rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition as refinished. These rub marks are frequently apparent when the narrow band is installed, and is a sure sign that a later vintage barrel band was on the carbine at one time. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked IRWIN-PEDERSON / 1767065. fire carbines like the M2's. Documents found in the past have identified several prime contractors who assigned subsets of their serial numbers to their subcontractor(s). The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. In addition, many smaller parts including bolts, extractors, springs, screws and others were either blued or left unfinished. Bogus trolling question. A few very late stocks used with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the forend. to manufacture barrels. But for some reason, buying a gun online can
The most prominent marks are on the handguard. Photograph has been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake stamps. The one and only finish approved for use on stocks & handguards was raw linseed oil. Which Saginaw? The elimination of the bridge strengthening the stock forward of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone to cracks. And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. This Inland M1 Carbine was made back in 1944. The stock was also replaced and has no proof markings. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. The rifle comes with a green canvas sling. 317XXXX. There are some exceptions to this rule as several prime contractors are known to have utilized parts made for other prime contractors. There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary
Walnut, Birch, and Cherry stocks were placed in raw linseed oil for a period of time,
been observed but are uncommon. It's listed with Inland. SOLD - Saginaw Gear M1 Carbine. The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. Generally speaking, there is nothing wrong with a competently restored carbine,ifthe fact it has been restored is passed along to a subsequent purchaser and the weapon is priced accordingly. Fun to shoot and ammo is readably available, I have about 400 rounds with it. Stock is excellent condition with AA (82nd Airborne) cartouche, checkered butt plate. Another word of caution is that brand new reproduction carbine stocks have been produced within the past couple of years. During the course of production of the Type III stock for the M1 Carbine several manufacturers began making changes
due to a lack of original documentation. Ser. Good luck. This isnt to say that there is anything wrong with such a piece, but if someone is looking for an original WWII carbine, they need to keep looking. The stamps used for the Caliber .30 Carbine stocks are also available. When did they change for from SG to S'G' markings? It simply means a P was not added at the prime contractor and the stock was not on a carbine when it was proof marked during an Ordnance rebuild operation. The inside of the operating slide is marked SG which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 65). GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in I can't find out who made it. for carbines having damaged or obliterated serial numbers. Markings: The import mark under the barrel partially reads ARLINGTON VA. No import markings. This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. U.S. Ordnance also inspected
In addition, when the carbines were overhauled, the initials of the ordnance facility were often stamped on the stock. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. It shows light discoloration & spots of soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes on the metal. The serial number would make it an early one too. At least one document has been found that indicates Saginaw received Ordnance
Grand Rapids, Michigan, Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. The Irwin-Pedersen contracts were terminated by Ordnance. I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide
Bolt is parkerized. They should not be altered or fired. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the M1
Sapwood is pale yellow-gray to nearly white. Front sight marked with N. Military Crossed Cannons Cartouche on right mid stock face. Some of these blocks were split up and used before or after other blocks. Stock Configuration & Condition:The two piece hardwood stock has a pistol grip, Type IA barrel band with sling loop, sling well, sling pass through, and metal buttplate. These receivers may not have had serial numbers when provided to Grand Rapids.
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