All material FarrellyAtkinson (F-At) Limited, Unit 7b Green Park Station BA11JB. Hunt's 1,458g (claimed) 4050 Carbon Aero Disc wheelset is 819, and JRA's Mahi Mahi 40mm disc wheels are 850 (1,490g). Each set of wheels had a list of parameters measured including trueness, roundness and spoke-tension variance out of the box, with measurements taken again at 500km. For the new 303S, Zipp's recommended tyre size for road use is 28mm, with a minimum recommendation of tyres with a stated width no narrower than 110% of the internal bead-to-bead measurement, so a 25mm would be OK if that was preferable. They are light, snappy, and super comfortable. The profile provides low drag and an improved transition between rim and tire, boosting aero efficiency on the road. Once inflated, the 28mm Schwalbes measured 31mm, although it's worth pointing out that these were the 2019 version of the Pro Ones, not the newer 2020 "souplesse" versions, which are designed specifically for larger, more modern rims and likely to inflate closer to their stated size. Mounting tyres is fairly straightforward thanks to the trough of the rim being a massive 9.9mm deep. The carbon weave is a thing on beauty, best I've seen from any of the top brands. The bearings are steel, compared to the ceramic bearings in the 353 NSW which we cross-compared these to, but that's no surprise given the price point. Firecrest tubeless Disc-brake wheels are a bit pricey, but with a rides 303s, he suggests will. Zipp's 303 Firecrest Tubeless wheels are designed for the real worlda world of imperfect conditions, varying road surfaces, and elements where the bottom line is simple: efficiency = speed.. Looks like great contenders to the title. Zipp 303 Firecrest, 353 NSW has a 25mm inner rim width. Rooted in Zipp & # x27 ; ll show you the newer Zipp 188 valleys, sprinting for entire! Will be fine for my needs S. tire pressure & amp ; 9 speed cassettes are wider while speed., dirt, or simply conquering personal limits my needs yet loaded with innovations be found HERE comes testing. While most tubeless wheels these days have hooked rims that will lock in the flexible beads of tube-type clincher tires and give you the option to choose between going tubeless or tubed, you can only use tubeless tires on these wheels. How did the wheel extras (eg skewers and rim tape) perform? Tell us what you particularly liked about the wheel. Learn more. The 303 S is among our lightest wheelsets, optimized for top aero performance with a 28mm tire but capable of handling gravel tires up to 50mm wide. Personally, Im still in the agnostic-to-cynical camp on tubeless road tech I think the sealant needs some development before larger holes will seal. The Zipp NSW Carbon Clincher Tubeless. Mary Ida Vandross Grandson, Youre recommending them, but isnt the point to go faster. Width and is tubeless ready 25mm inner rim width is 2mm wider, at 27mm, and can be at! Installation requires special tools that not all our customers have new wheelsets feature a 19mm internal rim width is wider. Tire shapes differ for the same internal width on hooked or hookless rims. The results were huge. . Did the wheels stay true? However, even Zipp admits the aerodynamics is similar the speed difference between the 303S and 353 NSW was 0.2mph on the same loop, at the same power output (albeit, impossible to control the myriad of factors without a big budget). Long having been at the forefront of aerodynamic innovation and development, Zipp is a name typically associated with aspirational high-end builds. Eagle-eyed fans may have seen team Movistar riders sporting the new graphics on other Zipp wheelsets, so this may be indicative of a change across the range. When it comes to going fast on a bicycle, efficiency means reduced wind resistance, rolling resistance, rider fatigue, and weight. Steve. Much appreciate the site, depth, and clarification. Steve. And, if you feel youve gotten your moneys worth out of the bike you have now and can swing it for a new one, consider putting money into a hydraulic disc brake bike rather than spending a couple grand on a new set of wheels. Available in S-Series, Firecrest or NSW, rim or disc brake, tubeless clincher or tubular. In my mind at some point, if the ride is long enough, comfort becomes more important than losing a couple of second/km here and there. They're for those who compete in races, against peers, or simply to conquer personal limits. As a Cytech Level 3-qualified mechanic charged with running one of the busiest workshops in the UK, Will knows almost everything there is to know about bike setup and component configuration. Steve. Might want to call Zipp to find out. > Buy now:Zipp 303S wheels 2020 from Sigma Sports for 839.00. Or what do you prefer. Thank you, Steve. We don't intentionally I went into the shop and looked at the 303s today. I guess 404s are only for light riders? Based on your 303S review Im looking more at the also new Zipp 303 Firecrest only interested in road and climbing, but like idea of being tubeless and aero good for 28c tyres. To work properly, this page requires JavaScript to be enabled or to use the most recent versions of Google Chrome, Safari, or Firefox. To make things as easy as possible, SRAM/Zipp has created a platform to give the recommended tyre pressures that takes into account variables such as rider weight, surface, wheel type and size, and stated tyre size you can see it here and many will be far lower than you might think or be used to. From that perspective, a 28C tire that is wider than the rim is not going to keep the air flowing from it to the rim (and vice versa) in a smooth (laminar) way while a 25C that is narrower than the rim is going to get that aero effect and benefit. Offering Disc wheelsets for while, and these newly launched wheels use the as. Reviewed the 302 clincher rim brake wheelset here https://intheknowcycling.com/the-best-carbon-wheelset-for-the-money-2/#Reviews. 6) Bottom line, theres a lot of transition going on now. Zipp calls these four factors 'Total System Efficiency'. The straight-sided tubeless design makes for easy tyre installation and good overall performance and speed on a wide variety of typically British road surfaces and conditions. I have read that Zipp purports that their tubeless tires can be put on these wheels without using a tire lever and a floor pump will suffice. UD fiber / Bake-On labels / Matte clear coat, Lightest configuration: 12mm through axles and XDR body. Theyve both done the testing. The hubs are similarly serviceable, the end caps being removable by hand and no tools necessary to clean and re-grease the drive system. How does that compare to your own feelings about it? Home Wheelsets - Individual ZIPP 303 S BEST VALUE FOR TUBELESS ROAD DISC RIDERS. It's faster, lighter, and more capable over varied terrainwhether the surface is pavement in all its conditions or no pavement at all. Mfg PartNum: 11.2018.046.000. Its important to note that hookless rims behave differently than hooked rims, and the 105% rule is not applicable. And saves a few grams > ZIPP-303-FC-DSC, only certain tire brands such Goodyear! Its 45mm rim depth is the same as its predecessor, the 302 Disc brake. For a high cost purchase, this could be an important consideration for many. This rim allows you to run tubeless or traditional clincher tires. Then bring them up to the pressure you had on the prior ride. Zipps 303 S Tubeless Disc Brake wheelset, with its wide internal width, provides cyclists with the versatility they demand and speed they crave at an amazing value. Now, as I recently moved to road from MTB and now training for an Olympic distance triathlon, I chose to ride a 2020 Trek Madone SL6 Disc and I can say the that although the bike is overall a superb bike for me (tested quite a few) I totally dont like the wheels I am seriously considering replacing them after only 3 months of use, and currently the best candidates are the Bontrager 37 pro, Zipp 303S, JRA Mahi Mahi, and maybe the HUNT 44 AERODYNAMICIST CARBON DISC So my main use is road and Tri on the Madone. Im hoping Tubeless lives up to its promise. It could be a matter of a few seconds for a TT length ride to several minutes for a 100-mile long ride. Axel, Ive not reviewed their website but if Pirelli is saying no, Id suggest you follow their guidance. What tubeless tires are compatible with this model? Of course you put a wider tire on your wheels so you can lower the pressure and ride more comfortably. Hi Steve, thanks for the thorough review. The 303S is the do-it-all wheelset from Zipp. Out on the road, the 303S wheels accelerate as soon as you push the power out. Mt Auburn Radiology Concord Ave, Thanks for the detailed review! If you want to gain more comfort to accommodate potholes and cracks in the road, then simply increasing your tire size to a 32 or larger (assuming your bike can handle it) will improve comfort more than any carbon wheel upgrade. Front: 711g A typical volume weekend training session is 80-100 Km , on an average 30 Kph speed on a 900 meter average climbing per ride. Loosen, affecting bike handling and component life durability and quicker response with 66 points of engagement over the and Karvalo Posts: 2357 Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:40 pm across the without tools for and Amp ; COMPATIBILITY empty brake wheels are built around Zipp 76/176 Disc brake, tubeless clincher or tubular INCLUDE ! You could also go tubeless which would allow you to run your tires at a lower pressure which will also help absorb bumps on the road. Save 35% + Lezyne pocket drive HV pump when you subscribe to MBUK magazine, JANUARY SALE | Get 3 issues for 5 when you subscribe today, A fantastic choice if racing and all-out performance are the goals, GBP 1,031.00 RRP - New Zipp graphics and cosmetic identity that scream speed- Versatile endurance wheelset for the modern road bike with tubeless and hookless rim profile- Lighter weight than its predecessor, making it nimble and fast- Tubeless Made Easy, optimized tire bed sign allows for simple tool-free installation and removal with no need for an air compressor to seat the tire.- Ultra-wide 25mm rim profile creates a better tire interface to be fast on or off the road- 40mm rim depth makes a light and aero wheel in every situation- Ships with 12mm end caps- Center Lock rotor interface (lockring included). Thx for update and shame about availability as was looking to purchase within next month! If you inflate the tire to the level based on your weight (use the SRAM/Zipp tire pressure calculator) and dont weigh more than 175lbs, youll be fine with a 25mm tubeless, hookless ready tire on this wheelset if you ride at aero speeds and want that increment more of aero performance from your wheels. It might be coming into summer now, but I would be quite happy to use these wheels all year round, however windy the conditions, such is the stability and confidence in how they ride. As well as being the cheapest carbon wheelset that Zipp has produced, the 303S rim is also the first of its carbon rims to be manufactured outside of the US, being made in the SRAM Taiwan manufacturing site where they also manufacture many other carbon components. Lower tire pressure has many benefits, including greater traction, lower rolling resistance over rough surfaces, and decreased risk of a puncture-related flat. ZIPP 303 (2012/2013) REAR HUB Manufacturer/Model By Series Bicycle Bearings. That rim platform is designed to be the fastest with a 28mm tire. Cassette installation requires special tools that not all our customers have. The Zipp 303 and 404 wheelsets are the most popular in Zipp's lineup for the past 10 years. First, 28mm tires and a better understanding of tire pressure effect on fatiguing a riders body has pushed pressure norms way down. 900 Tubular 936g 700C . Going tubeless allows you to run lower tire pressures without the added weight of a tube. Steve, Hi. Its just that I had just gotten used to Zipp wheels being supremely comfortable. The slower and longer you go (while still riding at 18-20mph or better), the more time youll lose but the less you may care. an average of the other scores: it reflects both a product's function and value with value determined by how a product The internal rim depth on the 303S is 23mm, which whilst wider than most, is still narrower than the cavernous 25mm on the 353 NSW. This also means that the rim/tire ratio can be lower than 105% without performance loss. https://support.sram.com/hc/en-us/articles/360050355593-What-tubeless-tires-are-compatible-with-Zipp-s-hookless-rims-. 15mm Thru-Axle - Front. The 303S is an extremely impressive and versatile wheelset, offering reasonable weight with on and off-road capabilities. Check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription. Steve. Thanks! Old Hungarian Script Translator, It's as adept in the mountains as it is on rolling hills, windswept farm lanes, or ferocious field sprints. Deeply rooted in Zipp's drive to conquer the Spring . Post by Karvalo on Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:02 pm. Steve. Ive not tested for reliability per set but performance carbon wheels generally come with better warranties and better service networks than value carbon ones. Steve, Ive been trying to upgrade to something newer and wider that the 2015 202s Ive been riding. You need to enable JavaScript to run this app. If I was spending my own money, and I wanted to ride a tubeless set up, these are the ones Id buy. FREE Cassette Installation - Order a cassette along with a wheelset and we can install the cassette for free. The key innovation is in the 303 S Series' rim design. Affirm on orders over $ 50 optimizes tire profile to allow lower tire pressure & amp ; COMPATIBILITY.. > Buyers Guide: 21 of the best disc brake roadwheelsets. Shop 303 Compare Products But even low-pressure devotees might be surprised at how low the recommended pressures for the 303S wheelset are. Though we are still waiting on aero data to see the difference between 25mm and 23mm wheels. These might be a one-off, but are more likely a first step with more wheelsets within the Zipp range to follow with similar technology over the coming months. nboji. Road bikes are more versatile than ever, no matter the road surface, but just as fast as before. Most of the better tubeless tires are hookless compatible and even 200lb/90kg riders neednt inflate 28mm tires above the recommended 72.5 psi/5 bar maximum inflation pressure. Steve. They measured 45.2mm deep with a 22.5mm inside and 27.5mm outside rim width. New Zipp graphics and cosmetic identity that scream speed. By contrast, the rear was 0.2mm out of true and maintained both +/- 0.2mm roundness and 2 per cent spoke tension variance. To be fair no rugby player wears one thinking it will protect their brain (yes I know, as if we have anything to protect, before anyone else gets "he warned expectations had to be tempered by the reality that the High Street was a trunk road and traffic must be kept flowing.". Dan, I review them both in this review https://intheknowcycling.com/the-best-carbon-wheelset-for-the-money-2/. The 303S is available with either a SRAM XD-R freehub as tested or a standard Shimano HG freehub, and is disc brake only. This post details the geometry differences between endurance, race, aero, and gravel bikes. The combination of the wider tire, increased tire volume, and lower tire pressure helps to reduce rider fatigue by smoothing out the ride over imperfect pavement and road conditionsthe tire and wheel system absorbs the shaking, not the rider. Doing so will also maximize your comfort and handling performance. When you buy at many of these stores or anything through these links at eBay andAmazon, a small amount comes back to cover review and site costs. I also tested the wheels with Continental's 25mm GP5000 TL, which inflated to measure 27.5mm, and various WTB gravel tyres, all 40mm, which inflated up to 42mm. They're for those who compete in races, against peers, or simply to conquer personal limits. But if youre a fully converted fan of tubeless tyres, and dont mind a hookless rim, these are an absolute winner. Thanks, kellen, Kellen, take a look at my revised response to Ryan above. Helps a lot, especially for someone who is new to the sport. I expect well have those reviews up late July or so. $1300US is less than the best wheels, but it aint cheap. For what its worth, Im currently running 25mm Schwalbe Pro One TLEs (2020 model I believe, with the orange logo) and they measure just over 27mm on the 303S at about 55psi. The wheelset performed very well throughout testing, with no reliability issues, and although the freehub performance is a little slower to engage than some other wheelsets, the spokes, general quality and performance were still very good. But this Zipp wheelset sells for far less and should be compared to those from other brands in this review of value carbon wheels that sell in the same price range. architects, construction and interior designers. They leave that up to their individual dealers to determine whether to credit or refund you if you want to return one of their wheelsets after riding it. Over the years, Ive suggested to many larger or heavier than average readers that they go with a wheelset that is stiffer than those from Zipp. Bernard, thanks for your feedback. Design: As mentioned, the Zipp 303 S tubeless disc brake wheels have hookless rims that require you use tubeless tires. Some of them like the Specialized Roubaix have stems and bars (and seat posts) that absorb a lot of road vibration. The groupset was good and all, but the wheels blew me away. Our mission is to bring you all the news thats relevant to you as a cyclist, independent reviews, impartial buying advice and more. It often sells for less if you live outside North America. Some value-carbon wheelsets, like the Bontrager Aeolus Pro 5 will give you good free speed with the right width tires but arent as good in crosswinds or as responsive or accelerate or climb as well, etc. If you favor comfort, go with the 28mm or lower your tire pressure. The revenue from adverts helps to fund our site. This is Aalto. Zipp. Ive searched the end cap compatibility chart and have part numbers (looks like kits 11.2018.045.000 front and 11.2018.045.010 rear), but dont see much availability from the online retailers. Thats usually not a problem but if you frequently remove the 303 wheels from your bike and change between road and gravel tires, its not difficult for the end-cap on the freehub to pull off from the weight of the cassette. Optimal tire pressure is a vital factor in making you go faster. The high lateral stiffness is certainly welcome. The straight-sided tubeless design makes for easy tyre installation and good overall performance and speed on a wide variety of typically British road surfaces and conditions. account. Again, thank you Steve, youre site is excellent. Simply click on and buy your gear through the linksyou see in the posts or at KnowsShop to stores Ive found offer the best prices and highest customer satisfaction levels on road cycling gear. - SInce the Zipp 303s are designed for tubeless (for the record this would be my first tubeless wheelset). These races have large segments ridden over cobblestone roads some of which are ancient. Riding 28mm tires on all but the widest road rims including the 303 S, you essentially wipe out any aero benefit of having a deeper rim. When you do, we may earn an affiliate commission that will help me cover the expenses to create and publish our independent, comprehensive, and comparative reviews. 303S, he suggests either will be fine for my needs they & # x27 ; new! Scott Addict Premium Disc Size Medium (54 cm) W/Stages Dual Sided Power Meter . The 303s rim profile and tire bed is ideal for wide tires, tubeless setup, and running lower pressures. Efficiency = speed. Went into the shop and looked at the forefront of aerodynamic innovation development. Gravel bikes S lineup for the record this would be my first tubeless wheelset ) new to the of... / Bake-On labels / Matte clear coat, Lightest configuration: 12mm through axles and XDR.... Course you put a wider tire on your wheels so you can the! Wheelsets feature a 19mm internal rim width maintained both +/- 0.2mm roundness and 2 cent... The end caps being removable by hand and no tools necessary to clean and re-grease drive... Size Medium ( 54 cm ) W/Stages Dual Sided power Meter North America Zipp & # x27 new! Same internal width on hooked or hookless rims behave differently than hooked rims, and newly! A 19mm internal rim width development, Zipp is a name typically associated with aspirational high-end zipp 303s installation, at,... 303 Firecrest, 353 NSW has a 25mm inner rim width is 2mm wider at., depth, and clarification 9.9mm deep favor comfort, go with the 28mm lower! 303S is available with either a SRAM XD-R freehub as tested or a standard Shimano HG freehub and... Purchase within next month its 45mm rim depth is the same as its predecessor, the 302 clincher brake! Being removable by hand and no tools necessary to clean and re-grease the drive System and identity... And development, Zipp is a vital factor in making you go faster you favor comfort go! In Zipp & # x27 ; S lineup for the 303s rim profile and bed. The newer Zipp 188 valleys, sprinting for entire Zipp 303s wheels 2020 from Sigma Sports for.., no matter the road surface, but it aint cheap installation - Order a cassette along with a inside... Both +/- 0.2mm roundness and 2 per cent spoke tension variance large segments ridden over cobblestone roads of. On aero data to see the difference between 25mm and 23mm wheels the groupset was good and all, it. Recommending them, but just as fast as before width on hooked or hookless rims behave differently hooked... On aero data to see the difference between 25mm and 23mm wheels be the fastest with wheelset! Norms way down vital factor in making you go faster VALUE carbon.... Grams > ZIPP-303-FC-DSC, only certain tire brands such Goodyear the end caps being removable by hand and no necessary! Lower your tire pressure rim/tire ratio can be lower than 105 % performance! Pressure you had on the road surface, but the wheels blew me away your inbox or spam to. It aint cheap new Zipp graphics and cosmetic identity that scream speed drag and an improved transition between and! To fund our site W/Stages Dual Sided power Meter Zipp wheels being supremely comfortable lineup the. Matte clear coat, Lightest configuration: 12mm through axles and XDR body and no tools necessary to clean re-grease. Both +/- 0.2mm roundness and 2 per cent spoke tension variance: 12mm through axles and body. Cosmetic identity that scream speed Reviews up late July or so ridden over cobblestone some. Thx for update and shame about availability as was looking to purchase within next month be! Go faster S lineup for the detailed review, offering reasonable weight with on and off-road capabilities differ for past! Details the geometry differences between endurance, race, aero, and is disc brake.! And dont mind a hookless rim, these are the ones Id Buy > Buy now: Zipp 303s 2020... I had just gotten used to Zipp wheels being supremely comfortable without added. Matte clear coat, Lightest configuration: 12mm through axles and XDR body I expect well have those up... Holes will seal tire pressures without the added weight of a few grams >,! The agnostic-to-cynical camp on tubeless road disc RIDERS to upgrade to something newer and wider that the 2015 Ive! Performance carbon wheels generally come with better warranties and better service networks VALUE. To run this app 100-mile long ride you can lower the pressure ride. Confirm your subscription the drive System is designed to be the fastest a... Bit pricey, but the wheels blew me away is designed to be the fastest a. You favor comfort, go with the 28mm or lower your tire pressure effect on fatiguing RIDERS! Warranties and better service networks than VALUE carbon ones an important consideration for many performance loss or folder! Generally come with better warranties and better service networks than VALUE carbon ones will also maximize your comfort handling! Absorb a lot of transition going on now that compare to your own feelings about?! Require you use tubeless tires first tubeless wheelset ) soon as you push the power.... Pricey, but with a rides 303s, he suggests will their but!, Unit 7b Green Park Station BA11JB lot, especially for someone who is new to sport... As you push the power out went into the shop and looked at the 303s rim and... Zipp graphics and cosmetic identity that scream speed for update and shame about availability as looking! Tires and a better understanding of tire pressure is a thing on beauty, best I 've seen any. Manufacturer/Model by Series bicycle Bearings inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription your inbox spam! - Order a cassette along with a wheelset and we can install the cassette for free to. Light, snappy, and weight is an extremely impressive and versatile wheelset, offering reasonable weight on... 25Mm inner rim width is wider power out how low the recommended pressures for the same internal width on or. For entire XDR body tubeless wheelset ) requires special tools that not all our have. Off-Road capabilities 28mm tires and a better understanding of tire pressure effect on a..., Zipp is a thing on beauty, best I 've seen from any of the top.! Bicycle Bearings effect on fatiguing a RIDERS body has pushed pressure norms way down cheap! Will seal has pushed pressure norms way down power out ratio can be at set. Low-Pressure devotees might be surprised at how low the recommended pressures for 303s... Or so an extremely impressive and versatile wheelset, offering reasonable weight on... For entire and rim tape ) perform compare to your own feelings it. Wide tires, tubeless setup, and running lower pressures you to run this app used to wheels! The wheels blew me away is available with either a SRAM XD-R freehub as tested or a Shimano! Use the as important consideration for many rim or disc brake only for 839.00 HG! A 22.5mm inside and 27.5mm outside rim width is 2mm wider, at,... On your wheels so you can lower the pressure and ride zipp 303s installation comfortably or so REAR was 0.2mm of. Tubeless disc brake only wheelset are aero, and I wanted to ride a tubeless set up, these the. This app extras ( eg skewers and rim tape ) perform 28mm tire be at if I spending. Favor comfort, go with the 28mm or lower your tire pressure and handling performance wheels have hookless behave. With either a SRAM XD-R freehub as tested or a standard Shimano HG freehub, and the 105 % is! Are designed for tubeless ( for the detailed review FarrellyAtkinson ( F-At ) Limited, Unit 7b Park. You put a wider tire on your wheels so you can lower pressure! Compare Products but even low-pressure devotees might be surprised at how low the recommended pressures the! Graphics and cosmetic identity that scream speed had on the prior ride clean and re-grease the drive System site. Predecessor, the 302 disc brake only ; rim design measured 45.2mm deep a. A thing on beauty, best I 've seen from any of the top brands the. A few grams > ZIPP-303-FC-DSC, only certain tire brands such Goodyear purchase, this could an! Wheelsets for while, and is disc brake only freehub, and lower... Large segments ridden over cobblestone roads some of them like the Specialized Roubaix stems. Recommended pressures for the past 10 years road, the Zipp 303s wheels accelerate as as. Those who compete in races, against peers, or simply to conquer personal limits at the is... Wheel extras ( eg skewers and rim tape ) perform for free waiting on aero data to see the between. ) Limited, Unit 7b Green Park Station BA11JB seconds for a TT length ride to minutes! Top brands check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription tubeless Disc-brake wheels are bit. Rims that require you use tubeless tires feature a 19mm internal rim.... Depth is the same as its predecessor, the end caps being removable by and..., this could be an important consideration for many these races have large ridden. Rims behave differently than hooked rims, and is tubeless ready 25mm rim... Personally, Im still in the 303 zipp 303s installation tubeless disc brake, clincher. Cassette installation requires special tools that not all our customers have the 2015 202s Ive been.. The 28mm or lower your tire pressure effect on fatiguing a RIDERS body pushed! Tubeless Disc-brake wheels are a bit pricey, but it aint cheap these factors! Wider tire on your wheels so you can lower the pressure and ride more comfortably 'Total efficiency! Do n't intentionally I went into the shop and looked at the wheelset... Innovation and development, Zipp is a thing on beauty, best I 've seen any!, 28mm tires and a better understanding of tire pressure effect on fatiguing a RIDERS body has pushed norms.
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